Existing draft · inherited source review / aggression
They do not have to be friends; they have to not fight - avoidance passes, ignoring passes, and going after the other dog never does.
Answer
No. The success criterion the trainers state, repeatedly and to the families who will have to live by it, has a hard half and a soft half. "this is acceptable avoiding avoiding is fine right if he avoids the other dog there's no problem with that they don't have to be his best friend no they just need to not get in the fight exactly." And then the line drawn underneath it: "it's not required but neutrality is required that's not optional he's not allowed to go after him." So avoidance passes. Ignoring passes. Sniffing and playing pass. Going after the other dog does not, ever. That is said three times in one handover because it is the standard the household will be judging their own dog against for years, and it is said against what most owners would probably prefer to hear. The same criterion is given to another family before the risky part rather than claimed afterwards - "best friends maybe who knows doesn't need to happen yeah peaceful coexistence required yeah required" - and the honesty is carried through to what can and cannot be promised: the floor, coexisting without harm, is what a trainer says he can set up; the ceiling, best friends, is something he says he does not have much control over. Two refinements matter. First, neutrality is not one skill. Being neutral about people does not make a dog neutral about dogs, or geese, or a ball somebody throws - "doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air" - so each category has to be installed separately, and a dog who is excellent in public may be nothing of the kind with the next thing that moves. Second, the criterion has two sides on the human category as well, given in one breath: he does not want any of the dogs to be scared of people, and in the same breath they need to know they cannot go running up to them. Neutral is the middle, not the low end. As for what the finish line looks like, the corpus gives two versions and does not choose between them. One is an uncued decision, and the trainer's evidence for it is his own inaction, narrated: "she thought about it. Again, I didn't have to hit anything there though. The biggest thing is that she's correcting herself." The other is a built prediction - cue something else at every single instance of the trigger until the dog expects the cue, so that "it just looks like a seamless i don't care about the dog." And one small thing the trainers do that owners almost never do: they pay the non-event. When a dog lets another dog come close and does nothing, he is praised out loud, and the owner is told that this is the moment to praise - because in a case whose deliverable is indifference, the target behaviour is invisible and would otherwise go unrewarded. What is inferred rather than stated: that these are one doctrine. Three handlers on three dogs state the criterion in almost identical words, which is the finding; nobody in the corpus sets out the per-category rule, the two-sided rule and the two finish lines as a single framework.
Owner takeaway
Change what you are aiming at. You are not trying to get your dog to like other dogs - you are trying to make other dogs boring. Avoidance counts as a pass. Ignoring counts as a pass. Sniffing and playing are a bonus and not the target. The only thing that never passes is going after the other dog. Then do the thing almost nobody does: when he looks at another dog and chooses to do nothing, praise him for it, out loud, every time - because doing nothing is the behaviour you are paying for. And do not assume that a dog who is wonderful with people is anything of the kind with dogs, or birds, or a thrown ball. Each one has to be taught on its own.
Across the cases
Zeus
The case where the rule is stated as a rule, three times in one handover, because it is the standard a household of four other dogs will be living by. Avoidance is fine. They do not have to be best friends. They just need to not get in the fight. And then the hard half, which is the sentence that matters: friendship is not required, neutrality is required, that is not optional, he is not allowed to go after him. The goal was scoped before any of it was tested - not dogs in general but four specific dogs at one address, of which the two smaller ones are no problem and the two bigger, younger, more playful ones are - which is what made the case finishable at all. And the trainer's own summary of the ceiling is the least salesmanlike line in the corpus: sometimes all you can hope for is neutral. What he does when the criterion is met is the part owners never copy. The resident dog comes close, Zeus does nothing, and the trainer praises him out loud and then tells the owner, in as many words, that this is the thing you praise - because he is being neutral.
and then the main problem is that he needs to get along with with all four of the dogs, the other dogs that live where he lives when he goes home. So he's like jumped on them really bad and like gone after them. So the two little dogs he has no issues with, it's the two bigger dogs that are younger, they're more playful, more energetic.
Watch at 01:42 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
right but it's not required but neutrality is required that's not optional he's not allowed to go after him right
Watch at 44:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Dutchess
The dog on whom the criterion gets its two most useful refinements. The first is that neutrality is not a single skill: being neutral to people does not mean being neutral to dogs, to geese, or to random things in the air - so a dog who is superb with strangers may be nothing of the kind with the next moving thing, and in this case that is exactly where the residual risk sits. Her people-neutrality is finished; her dog-neutrality is the open question, and the trainer says plainly why it matters and does not soften it: she has to be safe around all other dogs, because if she is not that could be really dangerous, and in fact it already has been. The second refinement is that neutral has two sides on the human category too, given in one breath - he does not want any of the dogs to be frightened of people, and in the same breath they must know they cannot go running up to them. What the finish line looks like is narrated three times in this one session, and the evidence offered each time is the handler's own inaction: she thought about it, and he did not have to press anything, and the big thing is that she is correcting herself. Her second file supplies the intermediate state that makes progress countable before that: still fixated, still staring, but no lunge and no tension on the leash.
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
The question is just like, you know, you got to make sure she's safe around all other dogs. Um because if she's not, that could be really dangerous. And in fact, already has been dangerous before we got a hold of her.
Watch at 14:28 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
But in the same breath, they need to know they can't go and run up to people.
Watch at 10:18 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
she thought about it. Again, I didn't have to hit anything there though. The biggest thing is that she's correcting herself.
Watch at 11:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
and dutchess was like fixated but she didn't like lunge he was a smaller dog too um she didn't lunge
Watch at 03:18 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
she did stare but we sat there and she i did no pulling on my leash at all it was really good
Watch at 03:27 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Kodak
The pair case, where the criterion is a promise made in advance rather than a result claimed afterwards - and where the promise is split honestly into a floor and a ceiling. The standard is set before the first attempt and the owners are told it: best friends maybe, who knows, does not need to happen; peaceful coexistence required, because that is where escalation starts. At the first owner lesson the two possible outcomes are laid out side by side without preference - they could end up best friends, or they could tolerate each other as long as they leave each other alone. And then the line that is rarer than either: the worst case is obviously possible and he does not have much control over the best case, but he can set up the best possible chance for it. He guarantees the floor and only offers odds on the ceiling. The same file gives the permission an owner most needs and least expects - even if he is looking kind of hard, as long as he does not do anything, you are fine, let him look - and pairs it with the prior instruction that makes the whole thing work, which is to let the dog make the bad decision rather than pre-empting it with a stream of commands.
best friends maybe who knows doesn't need to happen yeah peaceful coexistence required yeah required they need to be able to be around each other peacefully and not do that kind of stuff because that that's when you get something that escalates
Watch at 11:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
i see that uh that worst case scenario is obviously possible it's definitely going to happen um and then the best case scenario i don't really have that much control over um but i can definitely set up the best possible chance for it
Watch at 07:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
because both of them are relatively young dogs and they've shown that they're able to get along with other dogs um i just need to teach them how to treat each other um and then integrate them
Watch at 06:54 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
stormie
The dog whose file explains what the finished article actually is, and it is not a decision. The mechanism is given to the owner with the dog standing there: say the cue at every single instance of the trigger, until the dog's brain reaches the conclusion that every time we walk past a dog he says this, so I will predict it this time - and what an onlooker then sees is a seamless dog who does not care about the dog. The important part is the sentence after it, in the parallel passage from the first owner lesson: it looks like a dog who is indifferent, but psychologically there is a whole thought process going on. That is the honest account of most 'neutral' dogs in public, and it is the answer to an owner who wonders why their own dog does not just naturally stop caring. It also sets up the conflict on this page, because on this account the dog never chooses anything - the handler has installed a competing prediction, and the indifference is the appearance rather than the thing.
go and then she immediately unfixates and follows along and it's the same thing with the dogs if i say let's go every single time we walk by a dog her brain starts to go well every time we walk by a dog he says let's go i'm going to predict it this time and so it just looks like a seamless i don't care about the dog okay right
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
yeah you get the two in tandem with each other where she's now realized that her prediction was wrong she adjusts accordingly and then on top of that she's been conditioned every time we go by by the dog she's already ready for me to say it but it looks really like it when you watch it you're just like oh she doesn't care about the dog but like psychologically there's like a whole entire thought process going on there
Watch at 01:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
luna
The dog whose file contains the warning that governs how neutrality may be built. Do not tap the collar every time she sees a dog: a dog with nervous tendencies will draw the obvious conclusion - all dogs are bad, they are dangerous, every time I see one I feel this - and you will have manufactured the aversion you were hired to remove. The alternative in the same lesson is the cue-every-time route, and the two together are why this page has to sit next to the emotional-change page rather than being read as a compliance standard: the same visible outcome, a dog who does nothing when another dog passes, can be built two ways and only one of them is worth having. Her handover also supplies the rule that keeps an owner out of the other ditch, because it is the mistake families make while trying to be diligent: never punish a position the dog was not put in.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Source excerpts
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
right but it's not required but neutrality is required that's not optional he's not allowed to go after him right
Watch at 44:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
right we would rather them ignore right then then get fixated and go after them so like avoidance is a lawful choice that's acceptable
Watch at 16:20 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
and then the main problem is that he needs to get along with with all four of the dogs, the other dogs that live where he lives when he goes home. So he's like jumped on them really bad and like gone after them. So the two little dogs he has no issues with, it's the two bigger dogs that are younger, they're more playful, more energetic.
Watch at 01:42 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
best friends maybe who knows doesn't need to happen yeah peaceful coexistence required yeah required they need to be able to be around each other peacefully and not do that kind of stuff because that that's when you get something that escalates
Watch at 11:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
i see that uh that worst case scenario is obviously possible it's definitely going to happen um and then the best case scenario i don't really have that much control over um but i can definitely set up the best possible chance for it
Watch at 07:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
That's what I want to see, which is like I don't cuz I don't want any of the dogs to be scared of people. So I make sure they're not.
Watch at 10:12 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
But in the same breath, they need to know they can't go and run up to people.
Watch at 10:18 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
she thought about it. Again, I didn't have to hit anything there though. The biggest thing is that she's correcting herself.
Watch at 11:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
She's not terrified of people, but she like looks at them and like, all right, I can't do it though.
Watch at 11:30 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
The question is just like, you know, you got to make sure she's safe around all other dogs. Um because if she's not, that could be really dangerous. And in fact, already has been dangerous before we got a hold of her.
Watch at 14:28 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
go and then she immediately unfixates and follows along and it's the same thing with the dogs if i say let's go every single time we walk by a dog her brain starts to go well every time we walk by a dog he says let's go i'm going to predict it this time and so it just looks like a seamless i don't care about the dog okay right
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
How the trainers explain it
Three stated pieces. First, why indifference is the right target rather than a consolation prize: the thing that escalates is engagement, so a dog who does not engage cannot escalate - peaceful coexistence is required precisely because 'that kind of stuff' is where something escalates from. Second, why the target has to be installed per category: neutrality is treated as an association with a class of thing rather than as a general temperament, so being neutral about people carries no information about dogs, geese or a thrown ball, and each has to be built. Third, how it is built, and here the corpus gives two routes to the same appearance. One is a competing prediction: cue something else at every single instance of the trigger until the dog expects the cue rather than the encounter, at which point the dog looks indifferent while, in the trainer's own words, there is a whole thought process going on. The other is a real choice the dog makes, where the handler's contribution is restraint - he narrates his own inaction as the evidence, because a dog who declines before anybody presses anything is doing something a cued dog is not. Attached to both is a maintenance rule that is easy to miss and does most of the work: the non-event is paid. The trainer praises the dog for doing nothing and tells the owner that this is what she praises, because a deliverable that consists of an absence will never be rewarded by accident. And there is one prohibition that is part of the mechanism rather than a caution: do not put the aversive on the trigger, because a dog with nervous tendencies will conclude that the trigger is the thing that hurts, which builds the aversion rather than removing it.
That the two routes are the same concept. The corpus describes an uncued self-correction and an installed cue-prediction within weeks of each other, calls the visible result the same thing, and never compares them. Whether a dog who has learned to expect 'let's go' at every dog is neutral in the sense the handover criterion means is not addressed anywhere. Also inferred: that the four-dog scoping and the per-category rule fit together. Scoping the goal to a named list makes a case finishable; the per-category rule says generalisation cannot be assumed. Both are stated, on different dogs, and nobody joins them.
Differences to review
Is staring a pass or the thing you intervene on?
A pass, explicitly. Looking is allowed and so is looking hard, as long as the dog does nothing about it.
Instructions given to owners who will be walking the dog themselves, in two different cases.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
she did stare but we sat there and she i did no pulling on my leash at all it was really good
Watch at 03:27 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
The intervention point. A head up over the other dog with a hard stare and a freeze is named as the specific pattern not to allow, and it is taught to the owner as a thing to read and act on.
The same handover in which the avoidance-passes rule is stated three times, about forty seconds of body-language teaching later.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Both are in the corpus within the same fortnight and one of them is in the same session as this concept's headline rule. They are probably distinguishable in practice - a look with a soft face against a head-up hard stare with a freeze - and the handover session does draw exactly that distinction elsewhere in its body-language teaching. But as instructions to an owner they read as opposites, and an owner told 'let him look' and 'a stare is what you don't want' has been given a judgement call rather than a criterion. Not resolved here; what it needs is the two pictures side by side on one page.
What the finish line is: a decision the dog makes, or a prediction you install.
A decision. The dog looks, thinks about it, and declines before the handler does anything - and the handler's evidence is his own inaction, narrated out loud.
Narrated three times in one park session, twice with an explicit note that nothing was pressed.
she thought about it. Again, I didn't have to hit anything there though. The biggest thing is that she's correcting herself.
Watch at 11:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
An installed prediction. Cue something else at every single instance of the trigger until the dog expects the cue, and the result looks like a dog who does not care - while, as the same trainer says, psychologically there is a whole thought process going on.
Taught to an owner as the method for producing public neutrality, on a puppy.
go and then she immediately unfixates and follows along and it's the same thing with the dogs if i say let's go every single time we walk by a dog her brain starts to go well every time we walk by a dog he says let's go i'm going to predict it this time and so it just looks like a seamless i don't care about the dog okay right
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
yeah you get the two in tandem with each other where she's now realized that her prediction was wrong she adjusts accordingly and then on top of that she's been conditioned every time we go by by the dog she's already ready for me to say it but it looks really like it when you watch it you're just like oh she doesn't care about the dog but like psychologically there's like a whole entire thought process going on there
Watch at 01:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Nobody compares them and the two produce the same footage. The difference matters in one specific circumstance, which is when the handler stops cueing: a dog who declines on his own has something a dog who has learned to expect a cue may not. It matters commercially too, because 'she corrects herself' and 'I say let's go every single time' are different promises about what life will be like afterwards. Left open.
How wide the goal is.
As wide as it needs to be. Neutrality has to be installed category by category, and the dog must be safe around all other dogs, because if she is not it could be really dangerous.
Said about a dog whose incidents were with dogs in her own household, on a public park walk.
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
The question is just like, you know, you got to make sure she's safe around all other dogs. Um because if she's not, that could be really dangerous. And in fact, already has been dangerous before we got a hold of her.
Watch at 14:28 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Exactly as wide as the household. The target is named as four specific dogs at one address, with the two the dog has no trouble with identified and set aside, and everything in the aggression work aimed at the other two.
Stated before the first staged test, and then run as a live four-dog checklist at the handover.
and then the main problem is that he needs to get along with with all four of the dogs, the other dogs that live where he lives when he goes home. So he's like jumped on them really bad and like gone after them. So the two little dogs he has no issues with, it's the two bigger dogs that are younger, they're more playful, more energetic.
Watch at 01:42 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Not addressed, and both are defensible: a dog cannot be proofed against all dogs and can be proofed against four, which is what makes a case finishable - but a dog scoped to four is not a safe dog in a park, and one of these two dogs had already injured household dogs. The practical question a page has to answer is what a family is being told they have bought, and the corpus answers it differently in the two cases. Left open.
Questions and answers
Will my dog ever be able to play with other dogs again?
Maybe, and the trainers are careful not to sell it. What they commit to is the floor: the dogs do not have to be friends, they have to not fight. Avoidance passes, ignoring passes, sniffing and playing pass - and going after the other dog does not, ever. On a two-dog household the two possible outcomes are set out side by side without a preference: they could end up best friends, or they could tolerate each other as long as they leave each other alone. The most honest version of it is the trainer who separates the two halves explicitly: the worst case is obviously possible, he does not have much control over the best case, and what he can do is set up the best possible chance for it. So the answer is that friendship is a bonus you might get, and coexistence is the thing being bought.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
i see that uh that worst case scenario is obviously possible it's definitely going to happen um and then the best case scenario i don't really have that much control over um but i can definitely set up the best possible chance for it
Watch at 07:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Is it a failure if my dog just avoids other dogs?
No - it is one of the passes. The criterion is stated with avoidance named first: avoiding is fine, if he avoids the other dog there is no problem with that. Another session puts the same thing in the corpus's own vocabulary and says explicitly that they would rather the dog ignored than fixated and went after, so avoidance is a lawful choice and acceptable. This is worth taking seriously because avoidance is the outcome owners are most likely to be disappointed by and it is the one that keeps everybody safe. It is also the one the trainers will actively reward: a dog who declines to engage gets praised for it out loud.
right we would rather them ignore right then then get fixated and go after them so like avoidance is a lawful choice that's acceptable
Watch at 16:20 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
He stares at other dogs. Should I correct that?
This is the one place the corpus gives an owner two answers, and both are on film, so it is worth knowing what each is pointing at. The permission is broad: even if he is looking kind of hard, as long as he does not do anything you are fine, and you can let him look - and a progress report on another dog counts a stare with no lunge and no tension on the lead as a good outcome. The caution is narrower and is about a specific picture rather than about looking: a head put up over the other dog, a freeze, and a hard stare is named as what you do not want. The practical reading is that a look is a look and a hard-eyed freeze over the top of another dog is a posture, but nobody in the corpus sets the two side by side, so an owner is being asked to make a judgement rather than apply a rule.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
When he ignores another dog, should I do anything?
Yes - praise him, and this is the instruction owners almost never get. In a case whose deliverable is indifference, the behaviour you want is an absence, and an absence never gets rewarded by accident. So when the other dog comes close and the dog does nothing, the trainer says good boy, good job out loud, and then turns to the owner and says that this is the kind of thing he praises, because the dog is being neutral. It is twenty seconds of a long handover and it is probably the most immediately useful thing on this page. One caution from another file belongs with it: never tell a dog off for getting up out of a position you never put him in, because a dog punished for something he was not asked to do cannot learn anything from it.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
My dog is brilliant with people. Why is he still terrible with dogs?
Because they are separate skills, and this is the sharpest thing anybody in the corpus says to an owner who believes their dog is simply good in public. Neutrality is treated as an association with a particular class of thing rather than as a general temperament: being neutral about people does not mean there will be neutrality about other dogs, or geese, or random things in the air. Each has to be installed. It is also worth noticing that the human category has two sides, given in one breath by the same trainer: he does not want any of his dogs to be frightened of people, and in the same breath they need to know they cannot go running up to them. A dog who hides from strangers and a dog who mugs them have both failed the same criterion.
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
But in the same breath, they need to know they can't go and run up to people.
Watch at 10:18 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
He lunged at a dog and I corrected him. Why did it get worse?
Probably because of when, rather than whether. The corpus's instruction is to get the dog off the other dog first and correct him after: if you say the word and tap the collar while he is still in that position and still ramped up, he can take it out on the other dog, and the correction becomes an escalation because the other dog is what he is focused on and is what he will attribute it to. The same logic applies more broadly on a nervous dog - a correction that lands on the appearance of another dog rather than on a behaviour teaches the dog that other dogs are what hurt him. In both cases the fix is the same: change what the correction is attached to.
you pull him away right the reason is that if you say uh-uh and tap the e-collar while he's still in that position all ramped up he will take that out on him potentially right that could happen
Watch at 45:53 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Teaching outline
The handler can state the success criterion for a dog-dog case in one sentence with both halves in it, scope it to a named list, build neutrality per category rather than assuming transfer, reward the non-event, and sequence a correction so it never lands while the dog is engaged with the other dog.
43:46
The criterion stated three times in one handover, the non-event praised, and the pull-off-before-you-correct rule, all within two minutes.
10:12
The two-sided criterion on people, the per-category rule, and three narrated instances of an uncued self-correction.
11:05
The standard given to owners in advance of the risky part, with escalation named as the reason.
13:08
How the finished appearance is manufactured: cue at every instance until the dog predicts the cue.
Name the criterion out loud before the session, in the household's terms: which specific animals, and what counts as a pass. Then work the dog at a distance where he can succeed and let him make the choice - do not fill the gap with commands, because a dog under a stream of cues never decides anything and you learn nothing about him. Pay every pass. Say the words, mean them, and say them for a dog who has done nothing, because that is the behaviour you are buying. Where the dog gets it wrong, get him off the other dog before anything else happens, and only then mark and correct; a correction delivered while he is still engaged is an escalation the dog will attribute to the other dog. Keep the aversive off the trigger and on the behaviour. Then raise the criterion by category rather than by intensity: people, then dogs, then birds, then a thrown ball, each one built from scratch and none of them assumed. Report progress in the intermediate states - fixated but no lunge, no tension on the lead, looked and declined - so the case has something countable between reactive and neutral. (Zeus FIORySoF90o and C-te71IOKqA; Dutchess g8X4LPVegS4 and ZrfNorJ1X7A; Kodak A8iOpQFbk9U, BLUUidxbsnw and iZO2WNrinFg; Stormie 60YpxVWYv20; Luna _TVllc3GPIQ.)
Letting the passes go unpaid, so the dog is only ever spoken to when he gets it wrong.
Correcting while the dog is still on the other dog, which turns the correction into an escalation.
Putting the aversive on the trigger rather than on the behaviour, which builds an aversion in a nervous dog.
Pre-empting the choice with a stream of commands.
Assuming that neutrality in one category has transferred to another.
Promising the ceiling. The corpus's own practice is to guarantee the floor and offer odds on the rest.
Reporting 'calm or not calm' instead of the intermediate states, which leaves a case with nothing to show for three weeks of real progress.
For this dog: what is the pass, what is the never, which category are you working, and what did you do the last time he passed?
Common mistakes
Aiming at friendship. The deliverable is that they do not fight; sniffing and playing are a bonus, and treating them as the target is what puts a household in the situation the criterion exists to prevent.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Letting a non-event go unpaid. A dog whose target behaviour is doing nothing will never be rewarded by accident, so the trainer praises it out loud and tells the owner to do the same.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Correcting the sight of another dog rather than the behaviour, which teaches a nervous dog that other dogs are dangerous.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Correcting while the dog is still on the other dog. The corpus's instruction is to pull him off first, because a correction delivered while he is ramped up and focused on the other dog can be attributed to that dog and becomes an escalation.
you pull him away right the reason is that if you say uh-uh and tap the e-collar while he's still in that position all ramped up he will take that out on him potentially right that could happen
Watch at 45:53 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Assuming that a dog who is excellent with people is neutral about anything else. Each category is separate, and a dog's public manners say nothing about dogs, birds or a thrown ball.
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Pre-empting the choice with a stream of commands, so that the dog never actually decides anything and the handler never learns what the dog would have done.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Reading a frightened-of-people dog as a well-mannered one. The criterion has two sides: not scared of people, and not running up to them.
That's what I want to see, which is like I don't cuz I don't want any of the dogs to be scared of people. So I make sure they're not.
Watch at 10:12 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
But in the same breath, they need to know they can't go and run up to people.
Watch at 10:18 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
What to notice
Your dog is faultless with people in public, and you have assumed that means he is fine with dogs.
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
The incidents in your house have all been with dogs your dog knows, not with strangers.
The question is just like, you know, you got to make sure she's safe around all other dogs. Um because if she's not, that could be really dangerous. And in fact, already has been dangerous before we got a hold of her.
Watch at 14:28 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
You have two dogs at home who have never worked out how to be around each other, and you have been keeping them apart.
because both of them are relatively young dogs and they've shown that they're able to get along with other dogs um i just need to teach them how to treat each other um and then integrate them
Watch at 06:54 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
On a walk you correct him the moment he so much as looks at another dog, and the whole walk has become a series of corrections.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
He has got quieter around other dogs and also more wary of them - he used to be interested and now he avoids.
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
He stares at another dog with his head up over it and goes still, and you cannot tell whether that is fine.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Trainer notes
The criterion is the deliverable, so say it in the household's own terms and say it before the risky part, not after. Scope it to named animals where you can - a dog cannot be proofed against all dogs and can be proofed against four - and be aware that this is the conflict on the page: another handler in the same corpus sets the standard as safe around all other dogs, and in the case where the goal was scoped to four the dog had already injured household dogs. Split the promise: floor guaranteed, ceiling offered as odds. The mechanics that do the work are small. Pay the non-event, out loud, and tell the owner to - a deliverable that consists of an absence is otherwise never reinforced, and this is stated once in the whole corpus in about twenty seconds. Keep the aversive off the trigger; on a nervous dog a correction attached to the appearance of another dog manufactures the aversion you were hired to remove. Sequence corrections: off first, then mark, then correct, because a correction delivered while the dog is ramped up and focused on the other dog will be attributed to the other dog and reads to the dog as an escalation - the corpus names this twice. On criteria, report the intermediate states rather than a binary, because 'fixated but no lunge, no tension on the leash' is real progress and 'not calm yet' is not a report. On generalisation, treat neutrality as per-category and build each one; on the human category remember it is two-sided, because a dog who is frightened of people has failed the same criterion as one who mugs them. And keep the two finish lines distinct in your own head: an uncued decline is a different achievement from a conditioned expectation of a cue, they produce identical footage, and the difference shows up the first week an owner forgets to cue.
Equipment context
A dedicated tester dog
A known, stable dog of the business's own is used to stage the encounter, precisely because the household cannot supply a safe version of it and because it removes one of the two variables from the test.
So we're out here mainly to see how Zeus does with our dog Zooty-Chan. She's our doggy tester because he's been sketchy with other dogs and launches at them and stuff like that and we've been able to penalize it a few times but need some more reps with being able to penalize it
Watch at 01:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
A cue used as the competing behaviour ('let's go')
Given at every single instance of the trigger until the dog expects the cue rather than the encounter. The result looks like indifference and is, on the trainer's own account, a whole thought process.
go and then she immediately unfixates and follows along and it's the same thing with the dogs if i say let's go every single time we walk by a dog her brain starts to go well every time we walk by a dog he says let's go i'm going to predict it this time and so it just looks like a seamless i don't care about the dog okay right
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
E-collar, and where the correction must not land
Used on the behaviour and never on the trigger; and never while the dog is still engaged with the other dog, because it then reads as an escalation the dog attributes to that dog. On the aggression piece specifically the level is set relatively high compared with obedience.
you pull him away right the reason is that if you say uh-uh and tap the e-collar while he's still in that position all ramped up he will take that out on him potentially right that could happen
Watch at 45:53 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
A leash kept unlocked, and the handler kept unworried
So that the reaction, when it comes, is the dog's rather than the handler's - and so that looking is available to the dog without the lead answering it for him.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Settings
Zeus
a big open field in a city park, chosen for the staged meeting with the tester dog
01:22
Owner accounts
little more confident in her like knowing that she will back off
Watch at 2:42 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: its full wording does not match the current transcript. Preserved-track provenance is recorded in the private audit.
Candidate clips
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
best friends maybe who knows doesn't need to happen yeah peaceful coexistence required yeah required they need to be able to be around each other peacefully and not do that kind of stuff because that that's when you get something that escalates
Watch at 11:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
i see that uh that worst case scenario is obviously possible it's definitely going to happen um and then the best case scenario i don't really have that much control over um but i can definitely set up the best possible chance for it
Watch at 07:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
doesn't mean there's going to be neutrality associated to other dogs or other geese or random just crap in in the in the air, right?
Watch at 13:13 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
she thought about it. Again, I didn't have to hit anything there though. The biggest thing is that she's correcting herself.
Watch at 11:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
go and then she immediately unfixates and follows along and it's the same thing with the dogs if i say let's go every single time we walk by a dog her brain starts to go well every time we walk by a dog he says let's go i'm going to predict it this time and so it just looks like a seamless i don't care about the dog okay right
Watch at 13:08 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Source withheld by the current visibility or collection review.
Source moments
Source reference held under the current eligibility review.
Source reference held under the current eligibility review.
Source reference held under the current eligibility review.
Case story beats
Zeus
At a handover, with four resident dogs in the house, the trainer says the sentence the family will live by for years - they do not have to be friends, they have to not fight - and then says it twice more, because it is the standard and not a reassurance.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
right but it's not required but neutrality is required that's not optional he's not allowed to go after him right
Watch at 44:29 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Zeus
The resident dog walks up. The dog who spent a summer in a behaviour programme does nothing at all - and the trainer says good boy, good job, and then explains to the owner that this, the nothing, is the thing she praises.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Quotation held: text matches, but timestamp or full-span transcript confidence still needs review.
Dutchess
On a busy park walk a trainer narrates the same thing three times, and each time the evidence he offers is that he did nothing: she looked, she thought about it, and she corrected herself before he touched the remote.
she thought about it. Again, I didn't have to hit anything there though. The biggest thing is that she's correcting herself.
Watch at 11:23 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
She's not terrified of people, but she like looks at them and like, all right, I can't do it though.
Watch at 11:30 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Kodak
Before two household dogs who have never met properly are walked together for the first time, the trainer tells the owners what he is promising and what he is not: coexistence is required, best friends would be nice, and the worst case is genuinely possible.
best friends maybe who knows doesn't need to happen yeah peaceful coexistence required yeah required they need to be able to be around each other peacefully and not do that kind of stuff because that that's when you get something that escalates
Watch at 11:05 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
i see that uh that worst case scenario is obviously possible it's definitely going to happen um and then the best case scenario i don't really have that much control over um but i can definitely set up the best possible chance for it
Watch at 07:22 ↗ · Current transcript match · Audio confirmation pending
Questions for intake
Which specific animals does this dog have to be safe with, by name, size and age? The corpus's finishable cases are the ones where that list exists, and in one case the form named two housemates and neither of them was a dog the case was actually about.
What would count as success for you - friends, or leaving each other alone? The criterion is the deliverable, and a family expecting friendship has bought something different from a family expecting coexistence.
Is he neutral about people, dogs, birds, bikes, balls - separately? A single reactivity rating hides the per-category rule, and a dog who scores well on people tells you nothing about the rest.
What do you currently do when he looks at another dog? Households arrive having corrected the looking, which is the mistake the corpus warns about most sharply for a nervous dog.
When he has gone for another dog, what did you do in the moment - grab him, pull him, tell him off while he was still on the dog? The sequencing rule turns on this, and a family who have been correcting mid-conflict have been escalating.
Has an incident ever happened with a dog he knows well, in your own home? Two of the cases here turn on that, and the reactivity scales on the forms rated familiar dogs low in both of them.
Still to establish
Is a dog who expects 'let's go' at every dog neutral in the sense the handover criterion means? The corpus produces the same footage two ways - an uncued self-correction and an installed competing prediction - and never compares them. The difference shows up the day the owner stops cueing.
Let him look, or a stare is what you don't want? Both are taught to owners in this corpus within a fortnight. The distinction is probably soft face against hard stare with a freeze, and one session teaches exactly that elsewhere - but nobody puts the two pictures side by side, and an owner has been handed a judgement call.
What is a family actually buying: a dog who is safe with four named dogs, or a dog who is safe with dogs? The corpus scopes it one way in one case and the other way in another, and in the scoped case the dog had already injured household dogs.
Nobody in this corpus is recorded checking a neutrality result after go-home. Zeus's handover runs a live four-dog checklist on the day, which is the closest thing to a test, and there is no later session in the set.
The praise-the-non-event instruction is stated once, in one handover, in about twenty seconds. It is the most immediately useful thing on this page for an owner and it is single-sourced. Is it house practice?
Dutchess's file says her people-neutrality is finished and her dog-neutrality is the open question, and says plainly that if she is not safe around other dogs it could be really dangerous. The corpus contains no session in which that was tested with the dogs it mattered for. Nothing here should be read as a judgement on how her case was closed.
Source limitations
LgtaqFU0MiM and XXlQAQUTiZ4 carry the same audio as FIORySoF90o and Bzp2uNN-sJE; the arcs record them as re-cuts, and the timestamps differ between the versions. Where a line appears in more than one, the dated original is cited and the session is counted once; one quote here is taken from the re-cut and is identifiable by its video id.
Speaker identity is unrecoverable in every session behind this concept. At least three distinguishable handlers state the criterion and none of them is named in the first person.
Several of the FIORySoF90o cues behind this concept carry the low-confidence marker, including the praise-the-non-event exchange at 44:12-44:26, the body-language line at 45:24 and the coexistence passage at 63:19. None of the claims rests on a flagged cue alone: the criterion itself is unflagged at 44:29, the praise instruction is corroborated by the parallel passage in the LgtaqFU0MiM re-cut at 29:31, and the coexistence line runs across three consecutive cues saying the same thing.
ZrfNorJ1X7A and Zco7WZ-fY0I run in lower case with erratic punctuation and are quoted exactly as the tracks have them; Zco7WZ-fY0I's line at 00:30 is cut off mid-sentence ('She automatically just kind of backed').
g8X4LPVegS4, ZrfNorJ1X7A, Zco7WZ-fY0I, 60YpxVWYv20, TN1flHN40Vw, _TVllc3GPIQ and iZO2WNrinFg carry no publication date, so the range below covers only the four dated sessions.
iZO2WNrinFg at 77:19 is past the 77-minute mark of a very long owner lesson; the late portions of that transcript are the least reliable in the file.
The Dutchess park material at g8X4LPVegS4 is a single session carrying three separate narrated instances of the self-correction. They are one session, not three, and are counted once.
Intake material bears on this concept for four of the five dogs and is paraphrased where used; the relevant fields are the reactivity ratings, which in two cases sit oddly against what the footage shows.
Connected library collections
These links follow eligible video assignments in the reviewed library. A source can feature more than one animal; the older research-folder name is not used to merge identities.
Related concepts
- How do I stop my dog reacting - for real, not just on the surface?
- How do I introduce two dogs that don't get on?
- Why did my dog become aggressive?
- How do I teach my dog to make better choices?
- When is it safe to let my dog off the leash?
- Is it kinder to leave my dog uncorrected?
- Can another dog help - or test - my dog?
- How does a correction actually change my dog's mind?
- Why does the training stop working when my dog gets home?